THE J. I PACKER INTERVIEW

By David W. Virtue
www.virtueonline.org
9/29/2008

You would think that British-born theologian Dr. J. I. Packer - a man with impeccable Anglican credentials, multiple accolades, numerous books and now in his 82nd year -- might just be permitted to kick back and listen to Jazz music (his favorite), write more theological tomes and exempt himself from the current culture wars in the Anglican Communion.

Not a chance.

The distinguished octogenarian Canadian, Anglican, theologian, teacher, author and priest, has experienced the culture wars first hand. At the age of 81 and with more than 60 years as a priest in the Church of England and the Anglican Church of Canada, he experienced the shock of being defrocked by a revisionist Canadian Anglican bishop and then re-ordained by an orthodox Anglican Archbishop from another jurisdiction.


A lesser man might have had heart failure and shuffled off to glory.

But this thoughtful, quiet, seemingly under-stated theologian has a rod of iron spine and a clarity of vision and purpose about the gospel and church that shines forth from the pages of his books, from his life, from the pulpit and from within the sometimes messy confines of a press conference.

In Virginia, this past weekend, he was the keynote speaker at the Anglican District of Virginia (ADV) ( a division of CANA's) second annual Synod Council at the Church of the Epiphany in Herndon. Packer ripped a proposed covenant that would include "heretics" as an unworkable solution to holding the Anglican Communion together, saying that a North American Anglican Province was absolutely necessary for orthodox Anglicans in the US and Canada.

He hinted darkly that the GAFCON Primates might be forced to form their own Anglican Communion, free of the heresies of Western Anglicanism sunk in the mire of Tillichian Christianity foisted on the West by the German-American theologian and Christian existentialist philosopher.

"Because of liberalism, the sort of liberalism that came into the church from the end of the 19th century into the 20th century, it was never challenged and corrected. If there is a weakness in historic Anglicanism it is a willingness to tolerate the intolerable and that has betrayed us. Tillich's position affected all the seminaries of North America. This is where we are today in the West."

In the pulpit and at a later press conference where VOL posed a number of questions, Packer put into perspective what he saw as the current state of affairs in the Anglican Communion today.

Question: What hope do you have in a Covenant as a solution to holding the Anglican Communion together?

Packer: I don't think it can be the solution as the matter is being handled from Canterbury, because the Covenant is being handled to include and provide for the heretics in the church and de facto what is coming out of the hopper is being drafted to keep everyone inside who are also outside of historic diocesan structures.

The liberals are maintaining positions not tolerable and need to be explicitly excluded in any future working basis. I am not thrilled at the process going on. From Rowan Williams' standpoint nothing else needs to be done. His position sympathizes with the heretics and he doesn't want appear to be dragging his feet. He doesn't want to see Anglicanism restructured or redefined so as to leave those people out. He encourages the covenant process, at the same time the covenant will be exclusive of some.

(Historically) what happened in the 19th century is that bishops and the archbishops of Canterbury began a pattern of tolerance with a standard of tolerance that became (over time) a virulent liberalism because of the teaching of (German-American) theologian Paul Tillich. Episcopal leadership has been ruined from that day to this.

This has been going on in TEC and CofE for the last half century and is something like suicide. It is a process of ensuring that the life is drained out of the church and the leaders do this by encouraging various forms of liberalism. This does not communicate life and it doesn't build up congregations, it only weakens and shrinks them.

Question: Are you in favor of a new Anglican province in North America?

Packer: Yes, I am and I hope that the movement that is underway is a non-geographic one both for the U.S. and Canada. I believe it is going to succeed. We must make it succeed. I hope it would be recognized by the Archbishop of Canterbury. It will certainly be recognized by the majority of primates of the Anglican Communion.

(CANA missionary Bishop Martyn Minns said he hopes the Communion will recognize it. He said it would function like a province and work coherently and be recognized by GAFCON groups. Asked about a time line, Minns said a proposal would be submitted to the GAFCON Primates Council by the end of this year. It will be a short time line. By early next year recognition will come, he said.)

Question: What is your opinion of the leadership of the Archbishop of Canterbury? Do you have any regrets calling for the resignation of Rowan Williams?

Packer: The Archbishop of Canterbury is an honest man and by being honest he has positioned himself over a barrel, and as long as he is the ABC he will be over the barrel. Is it comfortable? No. Is it helpful for the world Anglican fellowship? Again, no.

Yes, he has admitted before becoming ABC that he said and did things, which sanctioned gay unions. When he become ABC, he said as far as the gospel is concerned, he was going to fulfill the role of the champion of Anglican order and the Lambeth Conference.

The '98 conference declared itself categorically against homosexual unions and homosexual activity and anonymous marriage and the ABC said he must and will uphold the standard. But his moral credibility is shot. The gay way is ruinous in all sorts of ways. Anglicans have rightly to be concerned about this.

Personally he is not in a position to being himself or to encourage or bring discipline on bishops with such a point of view that he embraces himself. So he is over a barrel. It seems to me the best way out that the Holy Scripture recommends as wisdom is that following this Lambeth, he should be finished as archbishop and move back into the academic world. He is a fine scholar. There are many institutions that would be glad to have him on their faculties.

Question (from VOL): Do you see GAFCON as a possible alternative Anglican Communion?

Packer: Speaking very cautiously, the answer is yes. One possibility will be that the orthodox Anglican communities will be organized in a fellowship which has GAFCON roots and has as its center the leadership of the Primates.

The churches of the old West are unable to enter that circle. We cannot walk together with heretics. These folk in the northern western world are heretics. What that means for the Church of England and provinces deeply infected with a lesser form of liberalism and what that means for the churches of North America is beyond me to guess. There is a sorting out going on and we shall all come out of the hopper better.

Question: What is your assessment of the Charismatic Movement?

Packer: I have assessed the Charismatic Movement and taking and looking at it piece by piece, the Charismatics really believe in exuberant praise. Praising the Lord is a central aspect of worship. It is a delightful activity, a powerful activity and the effect is charismatic. Am I cool to the charismatic movement? Oh no, I am not cool to the Charismatic Movement. I am very grateful for it, because it brought praise and giving glory to God. It is a group, corporate and needed in our personal lives. We need the Charismatic Movement to come and show us that.

Asked by VOL if this was a paradigm shift in his thinking from his Reformed theology, Packer said no. "This is not a paradigm shift. We (evangelicals) are not in the habit of giving glory to God. Charismatics help us emphasize the glory of God.

Question: Do you have any words of encouragement for the Diocese of Pittsburgh?

Packer: I have three words, VOTE FOR IT. Pittsburgh will be No. 3 diocese to leave The Episcopal Church. I hope they do come under Archbishop of the Southern Cone into a world of sunshine and peace.

Question: Presiding Bishop Jefferts Schori says there are no goats, all are saved. Do you believe that?

Packer: Bishops should be guided by the teaching of the Bible. The Bible standard is that the human condition is lost and that we are without Christ. The Bible recognizes that there are those who are not saved. All of that determines our view. Faith in Christ is the path of salvation and without faith in Christ we are not in position to say anyone is saved.

DURING the course of his sermon, Dr. Packer said the following things that VOL believes are quotable and usable quotes:

"Our calling is be faithful and energetic in our walking and keep on keeping on...it is a life of steady walking..."

"We are walking home to heaven. We walk in company in, with, and under the Lord Jesus Christ..."

"The life of communion with God and with Christ is the path of holiness..."

"There are three questions we must ask when we read Scripture: "What does this tell me about God? What does it tell me about life's ups and downs, and what does this to say to me about my life today."

"Theology is for everyone...it is thinking together under the authority of scripture. It means we have access to God and we believe in the sovereignty of the living God."

"The glory of the Trinity as the divine team - Father Son and Holy Spirit...we praise the Trinity. "

"The sinfulness of sin cannot be over-emphasized. The world is convinced that the individual is basically good. We need to hammer away that we are sinners and the gospel is Good News for bad people."

"The Gospel stresses the sinfulness of sin and stresses the glory of Jesus Christ. He is loving, serving, ministering and going to the cross to bear our sins away."

"Don't be afraid of penal substitution...it is Christ in our place..."

"Penal means he endures the penalty of our sin. He takes the sort of separation from God that impenitent sinners face. He bears this.

"The lord lays on him the iniquity of us all..."

"Our guilt goes to him. His righteousness...and we start over with God...our sins are forgiven...our past is blotted out..."

"Stress the graciousness of his salvation...the supernaturalness of his church of being born again.
"Stress that God moves to draw near to us..."

"The hope of heaven should be stressed..."

"Stress the glory of God in creation, providence and grace."

"Glory is God's self disclosure."

"Praise to God for the praiseworthiness He deserves...God is adorable let us praise His name."

Packer said that catechizing had fallen out of use in teaching children. Kids can learn the basics of the faith from the age of 3. They can learn what their heavenly father can do.

"Christian doctrine is not a series of abstractions...."

"We become life-long teachers and life-long learners..."

"You never come to the end of the realities that Scripture presents to us. Keep learning and keep on applying what you learn to life."

ON BISHOPS: "When bishops are good value, they are very good value. When bishops become heretical, then parallel jurisdictions become favorable. As tensions increase for faithful Anglican congregations, they must come under helpful new bishops."

"Bishops are overseers of pastoral ministry in stated areas. That used to be the Anglican way. Episcopal oversight has had to be set up geographically alongside of Anglican pastoral structures in the same geographic area because of the present situation."

ON METHODS OF TEACHING:

"Monologue is basic."
"Q & A is the form of catechetical answer."

ON THE PRESENT SITUATION:

"I have re-aligned. CANA is part of the realignment. We are being overseen by Southern part of South America..."

"God is using the present situation to squeeze the liberal leadership out of the Anglican Communion..."

"We need to restore a sense of mission in a truly pagan world..."

"We are to be counter cultural..."

"We are called to live as the Early Church did...in the world we won't be understood."

"We are new creatures in Christ..."

"I see this as a temporary phase until Anglicanism restored to its former glory."

END

INTERVIEW WITH CUBAN PASTOR

The interview below from a website Cuba Para Cristo offers a peek into the Cuban Church.

A Cuban Christian who has been a pastor in Havana for over thirty years described how God is working in Cuba in a recent interview with a Cuba para Cristo operative.

What's the history of the church in Cuba?

Cubans have been believers by tradition but unbelievers by education. Now they're seeking spiritual help, so if we don't give them Christ, the devil will give them any old thing.

In '59 all evangelical denominations supported the revolution, and many leaders and members fought to bring down Batista.

In April '61 the leftist tendencies of the government came to light, which sparked anti-government campaigns from the Catholics and the reaction of foreign governments affected by the confiscation of their companies. As a result of the difficult and tense atmosphere, many Christians left the country and at the same the government set up institutions which defined it clearly to be Marxist-Leninist.

It's hard to describe such an unstable period: many Christians remained faithful to their principles, and although quite a few stopped going to church, only very few had to close for lack of attendance.

In '65, sixty pastors and students in Havana were sent to UMAPs (Military Production Aid Units; concentration camps cutting sugar cane). None of those churches went without a preacher: one failed to open that Sunday purely out of fear, the others all opened their doors. This sort of thing happened all over the country, and it was a great blessing. Churches realised that lay people had to do the pastor's job, and suddenly lay ministry came into play, which meant we had many more gospel workers available than we'd realised!

For many years there were no meetings in people's homes and Christians were barred from some university courses, yet the churches never changed their programme: there were evangelistic crusades; there was an emphasis on the cross and the resurrection using singing and drama; Christmas became a purely Christian celebration since outside of churches there were no decorations of any kind. In short: Christians didn't stop!

To this day I'm not aware of a single person ever being jailed specifically for preaching the gospel.

Tell us about your work in Cuba.

I was 15 in '59 and in secondary school. I had been a member of an evangelical church since age 11, where my mother and sister were members too. From the very beginning we played an active part in the various governmental organisations that arose, without reducing our involvement with church.

Once the revolutionary process defined itself as Communist, I had to make decisions that affected the rest of my life. Feeling called to the ministry meant cutting off any other links and that wasn't without consequences. God blessed my wife and me with four years in seminary before starting as a full-time pastor at a time of acute economic crisis in the country: '71. In less than one year we had two daughters at a time when getting hold of a bike was a matter of prayer, effort and sacrifice, but was needed to serve surrounding churches that were without a pastor.
In over thirty years of service I've always had more than one congregation and have never lacked a pulpit to preach from. Cuban Christians haven't been hiding!

We're certain that all our difficulties have contributed to strengthen us as Christians and brought us to a deeper dependence on God.

What's the state of the church in Cuba now?

I don't think we're seeing a revival in Cuba but there has been a realisation by Christians of the opportunities available to preach and testify to a nation where most people's ambition consists of getting a visa to any other country, and tell them that Christ is their only hope in any country. Many have been receptive and as a result we have a record number of people professing, being baptised, going to seminary, being pastors, being lay church-planters, in music groups, so in the end we're living through a time where the more the material difficulties grow, the more God's people experience and proclaim the glory of His Name.

What are the greatest danger and the key strength of the Church here?

Complacency: 2% of the country is in our churches, but there are millions yet to reach!
Our key strength is prayer, but we need to use it! We need to keep Christ in first place in our lives and have a steadfast personal devotion to Him.

What is your greatest joy and sorrow as a pastor in Cuba?

Joy: I had to bring up my children in a Marxist-Leninist educational system, yet they are all walking with the Lord, loving the Lord, His work and this country. They have travelled outside the country and yet they know to value the unique opportunity of witnessing to Christ in Socialist Cuba.

Sorrow: Not having done everything we could have done and having ignored things that we've only noticed as we go into the home straight, when it's too late for us.

What stops you from taking the next flight to Miami and being a pastor there?

God called me to be a pastor in Socialist Cuba, so I'd have no excuse. I was called when they were hurling stones at us in the streets, calling us lazy and shouting that we should go and cut sugar cane. Now I walk down the street and people in the village greet me as their pastor - why wouldn't I stay? What would I say to Jesus?

My wife and I have thrown in our lot with the Christians whom we love.

WOODY ALLEN INTERVIEWS BILLY GRAHAM

Here is Billy Graham at his best...talking to people who don't share his point of view on morals and maybe just about everything else.

Graham's words were truly seasoned with salt in this interview.

THE BLOGPASTOR (Rev Kenny Chee)INTERVIEW

"I was near to quitting the ministry...a three week retreat in Sisterhood of Mary, Darmstadt rescued me"

SO HOW DID YOU GET INTO BLOGGING?
I first heard about blogging through what the youths in church were doing and from reports in the newspapers. I pondered about blogging for quite some time before I finally took the plunge. The Lord had earlier been talking to me about taking risks, crossing frontiers and stepping out into the unknown. So I saw blogging as an invitation from the Lord to venture into the new territory of blogosphere. What a wonderful journey it has been!

WHAT MOTIVATES YOU TO BLOG?
Initially it was to influence the church youths. Then it took on a life of its own and I found myself gifted with a wider invisible audience in blogosphere. I found myself having all kinds of thoughts, ideas, opinions germinating in my mind, even during odd times of the day, like seeds cast without regard, but on a ready soil, and wanting to sprout out into cyberspace. In short, to change the metaphor, my mind gets fired up, and my fingers start moving - thats why I blog. Having said that, interacting with folks in the blogging community and having feedback that people have been blessed or were just visiting also fans the fire inside.

WHO INFLUENCED IN YOUR GROWTH AS A CHRISTIAN LEADER?
They were mostly pastors: P.J. Johney, my predecessor; Norman Wong my current mentor. Friends like Raphael Samuel, Vincent Hoon, Kenny Fan, My wife Jenny (I'm not trying to be politically correct). More recently: James Creasman and the focusing leadership network.

WHAT’S YOUR TAKE ON CHRISTIAN LEADERS WHO SUPPORT HOMOSEXUALITY?
Some of them are missionals like commandoes behind enemy lines and may have been misquoted or misunderstood. But for Christian leaders to believe homosexual behavior is not a sin, and to approve of ordination of practising gays, and same-sex marriages just confuses the church and its witness as salt and light to the world. It makes you want to go on your knees to pray or take out the whips like Jesus in the temple, or both.

THE MOST DIFFICULT MOMENT IN YOUR LIFE?
When my wife contracted unknown hepatitis during her late pregnancy with twins; and when they were all in the ICU with their lives at risk. But the Lord was gracious and intervened.
The next most difficult moment was when I was near to quitting the ministry as the church was going through a sad decline in the late 1980's. A three week retreat in Sisterhood of Mary, Darmstadt rescued me.

AND THE MOST SATISFYING?
As a pastor the most satisfying thing would be to see lost people saved and transformed into a community of Christ-followers. As a father and husband, to have a loving family that is faithful to the Lord. As a person, to see myself growing in Christ and having the privilege of being used by God more and more effectively.

THE TOM WADDELL INTERVIEW

Tom and Linda Waddell worked in the Bolivian Diocese for a couple of years as SAMS missionaries, before moving on. They helped us understand the importance of building communities through self help and micro enterprise programmes.

Tom introduced me to the issue of development in missions and got me into the writings of William Easterly. I miss his fellowship in Bolivia. He agreed to do an interview with the Bolivian Beat and so here it is:

1. WHEN & HOW DID YOU BECOME A CHRISTIAN ?

I finally yielded to the “Hound of Heaven” in June 1968 at the age of 23. I had been considering the Christian faith for some time, trying to reconcile what I understood Christianity to be and my training in science. I was sitting in at a youth conference when I was struck by the text: “I am the way, the truth, and the life. Let no man come to the Father except through me.” My eyes and heart were opened. I dedicated my life to Christ. And my life has not been the same since.

2. WHO INFLUENCED YOU IN YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH CHRIST? WAS THERE A BOOK WHICH MADE A IMPACT ON YOU?

I was particularly influenced by the work of L’Abri, the ministry of Francis Schaeffer. An individual who had studied there walked along side me as I asked questions and pondered the Christian faith with its implications. The books of Francis Schaeffer (e.g. The God Who is There & Escape from Reason) and C.S. Lewis, especially Mere Christianity, were very influential in shaping my understanding and thinking.

3. WHAT GOT YOU INTERESTED IN DEVELOPMENT? WHAT MOTIVATES YOU TO SERVE IN THIS AREA?

While pursuing a M.Div. degree in seminary, I took a class in Biblical Anthropology and Missions. In doing research for a paper, I came across literature in the emerging area of Christian Relief and Development. The more I read and studied, the more my heart was drawn to undertaking some sort of ministry in this area. It was only then that I saw how God was weaving together my background in economics and business with theology in preparing me for a holistic ministry (word and deed) to the poor.

God’s compassion for the poor and disenfranchised continues to drive my motivation to help make a difference in building the Kingdom of God.

4. HOW DOES ONE BREAK THE CYCLE OF DEPENDANCY BETWEEN THE DONOR AND RECIPIENT?

This is a very challenging question. Donors first need to see themselves as partners and then understand better the nature of poverty and what it means to be poor, especially the notion of “poverty of being” that typically characterizes the poor. We need to be wiser in how to share our resources. The poor do not want handouts; they want skills and opportunity.

We need to work harder to uncover and harness the gifts the poor bring to the table and seek to build capacity and self-sufficiency. Thus, we need to have the poor participate in any development efforts, not simply be the recipients. We need to understand the difference between healthy and unhealthy dependency.

5. YOU RECOVERED BY GOD'S GRACE FROM A MAJOR HEART SURGERY EARLY THIS YEAR. WHAT DID YOU LEARN FROM THIS EXPERIENCE?

I learned to think twice before praying: Create in me a clean heart, O God! But really, such an experience reinforced the sense of fragility that characterizes each of our lives. In the final analysis, I was reminded that I am dependent on God for the gift of life each new day and for every breath he allows me to take. It also reminded me about the importance of redeeming whatever time God has provided for me. While I was very much at peace about the possibility of going to be with the Lord in heaven, I am grateful for another season to work in his vineyard.

Thank you Tom for this interview!!

CHATTING WITH JOSHUA SU
(We continue our series of interviews with prominent christian leaders from the global south...Its been a long time since we last did an interview!!)

Rev Dr Joshua Su is founder of Joshua Missions, an agency dedicated to the edification of Christ's Body. He just returned from teaching at a school of pastors in the Diocese of Ibadan North, Nigeria. He is an ordained anglican clergyman.

SO TELL US SOMETHING ABOUT JOSHUA MISSIONS?
This Mission serves in the prophetic ministry of the Word through preaching and teaching the Bible as the Word of God for today and declaring what the Spirit says through it. By so doing it seeks to call, encourage and facilitate churches, Christian organisations, Christians and Christian leaders to know and fulfill their call in Christ and build unity in Him. It also forms a network from those who join as members from these groups and persons to operate locally and internationally to strengthen each other in mutual ministry and to minister together to the wider Body of Christ and the world.


WHAT WAS THE MOST MEMORABLE MOMENT IN YOUR LIFE?
There are many memorable moments but my experience at my moment of personal salvation stands out. When I prayed to receive Christ into my life I was given a picture, sensation and message of His work in me. I saw in my mind's eye and felt the sensation of my heart as a black lump of lead with fire burning all around it. The message that came through this was that God was burning away my sin. An unexplainable joy filled my heart.

AND THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE YOU FACED IN MINISTRY?
The biggest challenge I experienced was the misconduct of a clergy who was assigned to pastor a ministry that I was leading as a lay leader. It made me seriously review the value of seeking ordination for myself. The resolution was the realisation that it is not the rite or the title of ordination but answering the call of God and receiving His anointing to serve that really counts.

WHO ARE SOME OF THE CHRISTIAN LEADERS IN THE GLOBAL SOUTH WHO'VE INFLUENCED YOU AND WHY?
I was born and brought up in Singapore and came to Christ and grew up in Him there. My Chinese ethnicity, living in a multi-racial Asian country with English as its chief language, receiving English education and coming to Christ with churches that were planted by the West sums up my background. I read and learn widely from many both East and West, with the English language as my medium of study. But I see no particular person except Christ as my primary influence.

WHAT IS THE PRINCIPLE CHALLENGE FACING THE SINGAPOREAN CHURCH?
Singapore Christianity and some of its leaders are playing a significant part in leading the global south. The challenge is the soundness and strength of Christianity and the quality of the leadership that these leaders and the churches in Singapore can articulate and practice. It would be wonderful if we can strongly affirm and express the faith of the Bible and the Christianity of Christ in the global south and the global south may do likewise for the worldwide Church that has tended to be preoccupied only with cultural, political, national and regional issues.

Thank You Rev Su For Agreeing To Do This Interview.

THE (Bp)FRANK LYONS INTERVIEW

The Bolivian Beat recently interviewed Frank Lyons, Anglican Bishop of Bolivia. Bishop Frank and his wife Shawnee served in Ecuador and Honduras before the Lord called them to serve in Bolivia. They have 5 grown up children. One of them is in Baghdad Iraq and the others are studying and working.

BB: How did you come to a personal knowledge of Christ as your Saviour and Lord?
Bp Lyons: I came to the Lord as a young lad of six when I was confronted with long periods of debilitating earaches (they would operate to allow for drainage). I turned to the Lord for healing. A few years later, watching the movie “King of Kings” one Holy Week, I realized that Jesus bore his cross personally for me. I was also nourished by a good Sunday school at Loch Raven Presbyterian in Towson, MD. Other experiences as a youth deepened that faith.

BB: You knew Abp Michael Ramsay the former Archbishop of Canterbury when you were a student at Nashotah House. What were your impressions of him?
Bp Lyons: Abp Michael Ramsey is an imposing figure for Anglicanism with his combination of Bible and liturgy. He was foremost a Biblical theologian. He is criticized for this because the tendency is to place systematics above biblical theology. That affected him as well, especially in the (old) Robinson “God is Dead” affair. I believe that by his actions he saved John Robinson’s soul, whereas, James Pike was allowed to wander and perish in the desert. However, as I now read the various biographies, Ramsey regretted his actions until his death as somehow a denial of the unwritten Anglican charity of “openness to whatever doctrine” that in effect pits ego-intellectualism against true faith. Personally, we had some brief chats, but I was not one of the students who maintained a deep, ongoing relationship. He did follow our missionary career with interest.

BB: Who were some of the people that influenced you in your growth as a person and as a pastor/Bishop?
Bp Lyons: My participation at the two local churches of my youth was rewarding, especially with David Lord’s biblical teaching. Mentoring has not always been an Anglican focus, so my studies and reflection on the ministry have aided me. The Bible faculty at Wheaton, especially Al Hoerth, Hassel Bullock and Gerry Hawthorne, and later Peter Wagner at Fuller, have been of greatest value to me. The time in ministry spent with Steven Giovangelo and the congregation of St. Luke’s of the Mountains in La Crescenta, CA, was invaluable to my and Shawnee’s ministries.

BB: Can you share with readers your experiences In Renewal?
Bp Lyons: My teenage years were spent at St James Church in Potomac, MD, which was dynamically charismatic. Our rector, David Lord, was a solid Bible teacher and our youth group was very active spiritually. Many people matured in a balanced faith and five others were also called into the ministry during that era. Renewal presented a problem for our Diocese which opposed our version of the “faith once delivered” at every step. Openness to the Spirit does not necessarily mean excess when tempered by clear biblical training, but rather compliments it.

BB: The biggest challenge you face or faced and the most satisfying moment in life ?
Bp Lyons: My biggest challenge came when the Lord called us overseas to minister cross culturally. I think I was planning to go to some nice quiet, maintenance oriented suburban church. I do not have the adventuring/discovery gifts that I consider necessary to be a missionary. Flexibility and an orientation to lifelong learning help me make up for those deficiencies. The great need for development is what keeps me on track here; developing people mentally, materially, and spiritually as disciples of Jesus.

BB: You participated in a dig in the Holy Land as an archeologist. How has archeology deepened your faith?
Bp Lyons: I dug at Beersheva in the sixth season under Y. Aharoni and A. Rainey, where a horned altar had been discovered previously. Kathleen Kenyon visited that summer. A lot of brute strength was involved in trying to dismantle the Herodian foundations superimposed there. Archaeology is critical in illuminating the text of Scripture and bringing home Jewish culture. As the gentile Church grew out and away from the Land we lost sight of the role of geography and Jewish culture in this context. When Jesus says something, “where he is” and “his culture” are as important as the way in which he says it.

BB: What’s your favorite Bolivian food and why?
Bp Lyons My favorite is Pique Macho. Mouth watering pieces of filet mignon are cooked in a meat sauce with franks or sausage and are placed with fresh tomato, onion and locoto over a bed of piping hot French fries. Locoto is the local pepper which varies in strength within each piece. Delicious, but much like Russian roulette.

JOHN STOTT ON TOLERANCE, PROSELYTISM & EVANGELISM

In an interview with Christianity Today (Jan 2003 Greg Barnes) John Stott clearly defined tolerance and proselytism as it relates to the evangelistic/missionary impulse of the church.

CT: Our Critics Accuse Us Of Intolerance And Proselytism.

STOTT: Much of our debate is conducted in what might be called "conditions of low visibility," because we do not always pause to define our terms. This is evidently so in relation to these two words.

Tolerance is one of today's most coveted virtues. But there are at least three different kinds of tolerance.
First, there is legal tolerance: fighting for the equal rights before the law of all ethnic and religious minorities. Christians should be in the forefront of this campaign. Second, there is social tolerance, going out of our way to make friends with adherents of other faiths, since they are God's creation who bear his image. Third, there is intellectual tolerance. This is to cultivate a mind so broad and open as to accommodate all views and reject none. This is to forget G. K. Chesterton's bon mot that "the purpose of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." To open the mind so wide as to keep nothing in it or out of it is not a virtue; it is the vice of the feebleminded.

The other word we need to define is proselytism. To proselytize and to evangelize are not synonymous. The best way to distinguish them is to understand proselytism as "unworthy witness." The World Council of Churches and the Roman Catholic Church produced a helpful study document in 1970 titled Common Witness and Proselytism. It identified three aspects of proselytism. Proselytism takes place (1) whenever our motives are unworthy (when our concern is for our glory rather than God's), (2) whenever our methods are unworthy (when we resort to any kind of "physical coercion, moral constraint, or psychological pressure"), and (3) whenever our message is unworthy (whenever we deliberately misrepresent other people's beliefs).

In contrast, to evangelize is (in the words of the Manila Manifesto) "to make an open and honest statement of the gospel, which leaves the hearers entirely free to make up their own minds about it. We wish to be sensitive to those of other faiths, and we reject any approach that seeks to force conversion on them."

INTERVIEW - Bp MOSES TAY

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH BISHOP MOSES TAY The Bolivian Beat launches a special feature today- interviews with global south christian leaders and their partners. More than one historian has said that the centre of Christianity is shifting to the global south – Asia, Africa South America and elsewhere. And our first interviewee, Bishop Moses Tay, represents this shift. He was the Bishop of Singapore and the first Archbishop of the Province of South East Asia. Bishop Moses represents a generation of passionate Christian leaders in Asia whose contributions reached global proportions. He also, together with others, began a movement which is stemming the tide of unchecked liberalism in the worldwide anglican communion. J. I Packer, in the 1990's once called the diocese of Singapore, under Bishop Moses' leadership, the charismatic capital of the anglican communion. Bishop Moses was the Lord’s instrument in facilitating our sense of calling to serve in Bolivia. 15 years ago, Bishop Moses, his wife Cynthia and I went to Bolivia & Peru to explore the possibility of building links with the Anglican Church in that part of the world. It was during this trip that Lord’s calling to serve in Bolivia was confirmed. In human terms I would not have had the opportunity to serve in Bolivia and this blog would not have existed if it was not Bishop Moses Tay’s decision to ordain me and to later open the door to Bolivia! Although retired he still serves the church in Singapore and loves playing grandad! Here is the interview: BB: How Did You Come To Know Christ On A Personal Level? MT: I came to know Christ early as a child through my mother's teaching and prayer and through a special prayer with a Chinese evangelist. BB: What Was The Most Memorable Moment In Your Life? MT: When I got married to Cynthia over 21 years ago! My first wife died after a brain operation for ruptured aneurysm about 2 months before I became the Bishop of Singapore in 1982. It was the most difficult period of my life because of my transition from work as a doctor managing a big hospital to become the Bishop responsible for work in 6 countries, with two teenagers needing care in bereavement. The way the Lord brought Cynthia is a story by itself. BB: The Biggest Challenge You've Faced In The Ministry? MT: Negatively, it was battling with Anglican Communion leaders who did not subscribe to biblical authority and biblical morality. Positively, it was the business of sending out missionaries from the Diocese! The owner of this blogspot is a happy story! BB: Who Are Some Of The Christian Leaders That Have Influenced You And Why? MT Firstly, it was my godly mother (a leader in her own right) who laid the foundation of faith and prayer. Secondly, it was the late Mr David Adeney, IFES General Secretary and later Dean of Discipleship Training Centre in Singapore, who encouraged me at a crossroad of my life. Thirdly, it was my predecessor Bishop B.I Chiu who led me in the things of the Holy Spirit and who influenced my appointment as his successor. BB: Any Wise Counsel For The Diocese Of Bolivia? MT: Wise counsel? I don't think I can do better than recommend Paul's counsel to Timothy in his two epistles. To that I would simply add:

(a) Obey and fulfil the Great Commission (Matt 28:19-20) as you also obey the Great Commandment of love (Matt 22:32-40).

(b) Build up disciples on the one foundation of relationship with Jesus Christ so that in turn they may disciple others (2 Tim 2:2).

(c) Press on to know Jesus, and the power of His resurrection, and to share in His suffering (Phil 3:8-14). Thank you Bishop for the interview.